Public Education Matters

Various student voices 0:08
Public education matters. Public education matters. Public education matters.

Scott DiMauro 0:15
This is Public Education Matters, brought to you by the Ohio Education Association.

Katie Olmsted 0:26
Thanks for joining us for this episode of Public Education Matters. I'm Katie Olmsted, and I'm part of the communications team for the Ohio Education Association and the nearly 120,000 public school educators and future educators OEA represents across the state. Those future educators, or Aspiring Educators as they're called, continue to face a major hurdle in completing their degrees in education and beginning their professional careers in our classrooms because of a serious financial issue. In their senior year practicums, they have to do their student teaching full time while paying full college tuition without receiving financial support to help them through it. That's really tough for a lot of people to navigate, and it's a real barrier to entry for potentially great educators who just can't make the finances work to get through that last bit of their journey to get their degree. In the last General Assembly, Ohio representative Sean Patrick Brennan, introduced House Bill 563, to provide financial support for student teachers. But when that GA ended at the end of 2024, without the bill passing, the whole process reset. OEA continues to work with pro-public education leaders in the state house to get a new bill moving forward to address this issue. And one of the people leading the charge with OEA's Aspiring Educators division is the current AE chair, Kyndal Mickel. She's studying early childhood education at Kent State University, and she brings a passion to her future profession, not only for serving Ohio's youngest learners, but for serving learners of every need and ability. She's a neurodivergent learner herself, but didn't get diagnosed with ADHD until she was an adult, and didn't get some of the supports she really could have used. We sat down to get more of Kyndal's perspective back in August, when she was at OEA's headquarters for a meeting about advocating for financial support for student teachers. Kyndal was here in her role as AE chair-elect at that time.

Kyndal Mickel 2:32
So chair elect, the easiest way to explain it is basically like vice president. So our chair handles all the board meetings. She is an official OEA board member setting like even stuff like today. So as chair elect, I kind of tag along, put my research in there, and I'm preparing to assume the duties of chair for the next term.

Katie Olmsted 2:53
And as an Aspiring Educator, you're also preparing to assume the duties of educator. Yes, sure, you're right now a early childhood education major, right? What makes you want to work with those kids specifically?

Kyndal Mickel 3:07
Okay, so everyone's like, I love the littles, but genuinely, I really, really do love the littles. A lot of people I feel like, have the motivation of being who maybe they saw as a student, and I have an interesting perspective of kind of being who I didn't necessarily see. So I am a neurodivergent learner. I was misdiagnosed in third grade because it it's younger and younger now, but I got tested and because I did well academically, they were like, no, like, you know, comprehension levels above, like, I was fine, and I struggled the older I got. I struggled because it's like, I understand, but for some reason, I just, I don't know, it just something, something was missing. So at the age of 19, I got an adult test. Was off the charts. I am primarily non attentive ADHD, and so now I'm like, I've worked at a monetary daycare for two years. I'm getting, I have a three year old little brother at home. You know, I'm getting to see hands on how our learners, our little learners, are growing up in this world, and I want to directly have a hand in helping them.

Katie Olmsted 4:11
So I'm going to pivot on this one. Yes, the as a neurodivergent aspiring educator, as a future neurodivergent educator, you bring such a valuable perspective to the classrooms, because you're working with students with all sorts of abilities. Yes, and as a neurodivergent learner and adult myself, I can appreciate having people around me who can see the beauty of my challenges and who can sort of use that in a way that is positive.

Kyndal Mickel 4:40
Yeah

Katie Olmsted 4:42
A lot of littles are too young for diagnoses.

Kyndal Mickel 4:44
Yes.

Katie Olmsted 4:46
Are you able to sort of take the energy and your own experience and serve all learners?

Kyndal Mickel 4:53
100%, I aspire to, and that kind of is, that's, that's my main driving goal, I guess, that's my main goal, because even if you are not a neurodivergent educator yourself, you may have neurodivergent parents of the learners in your classroom. you're gonna, you're gonna encounter neurodivergent learners, whether you recognize it or not. And so my goal is to, yeah, assess the needs of all my learners, and kind of be either that person that they can see, like, oh, they're gonna know. You're gonna know, but I want them to you know, either see that representation or also be aware of it from their friends, and then just have the knowledge and understand that we all have different skill sets and abilities, and we can succeed in our own ways. Like there's not just one traditional way to learn.

Katie Olmsted 5:41
As an Aspiring Educator, you're going through college right now, yes. And for neurodivergent learners, that can be a real challenge. How's it going? And are there supports that are helping you?

Kyndal Mickel 5:52
Yes. So how's it going? It's, it's, it's going. It's going pretty well right now. I will say it was, it was rough the first year, especially, I mean, like on the offset of - I graduated in 2022, so I got that, that COVID, COVID year, year and a half, it was, it was really hard. But then also, again, my late diagnosis. I got diagnosed when I was 19, so already was in school, and I just, again, the work wasn't hard, necessarily comprehension-wise, but it was like, I'm forgetting to I'm forgetting materials, I'm forgetting due dates. I'm like, it just was so overwhelming. I'm having a hard time mapping out how much time this should take me. Like, test taking. I would miss, like, silly things, like, let's just say two plus two. I know two plus two is four, but for some reason, on the test, like, I'm like, oh, like, test, which I now know I have test taking anxiety, like, different things like that. And so I was grateful to be able to receive resources from my college and having to, like, get different accommodations and talk to professors and really advocate for myself, which was new for me, but it's wonderful. Yeah.

Katie Olmsted 6:58
Speaking of tests, I know, just from conversations we've had earlier today, that that's a that's a big barrier to entry for Aspiring Educators is, is just that test. Tell me a little bit about how those tests work and why it can sometimes be a challenge.

Kyndal Mickel 7:13
Yes, so, OAEs. I haven't had to take them yet because technically, which is also debated and it's being debated now you can graduate college, and then, you know, and technically, you're already in your degree field, or whatever, and then you have to take those exams, and if you did not pass those exams, whether or not you got your degree, you're not, you can't teach in the state of Ohio. So a big, big, big issue that a lot of our aspiring educators are having is, I've, I've done all this schooling, I really want to be an educator, but the knowledge that I may have up here isn't correlating to the test, because, again, test taking anxiety. It's a lot of, from what I've heard, it's multiple choice, but it's a lot of, okay, this is a good answer. This is a really good answer. This may be a good answer, and this is the best answer, and we need to, like, it's, it's hard to choose from.

Katie Olmsted 8:04
Right. One of the things about neurodivergent people is we see a lot of gray area,

Kyndal Mickel 8:08
yes, yeah, yeah.

Katie Olmsted 8:09
And they're all kind of, right.

Kyndal Mickel 8:11
yes,

Katie Olmsted 8:11
right?So let's, let's fast forward five years. Yes, you'll have graduated, you'll have passed your test. You're, you're now working as an early childhood educator. Yes, what does it look like for you? I think, I mean, I have, I have a kindergartener and a preschooler

Kyndal Mickel 8:29
nice,

Katie Olmsted 8:30
and the things they're learning now are not the things I learned in preschool. So it is a it's a very different environment.

Kyndal Mickel 8:37
Yes

Katie Olmsted 8:38
is that good?

Kyndal Mickel 8:40
See, so here's where maybe it's the Neurodivergent thing. I'm like gray area. I see good. I see - there's no - I don't think there's like a good or bad. Obviously there's plus and minuses, which you can kind of say is the same thing, but on both sides. But I, I more so view the optimistic side of it, where the things I was learning and how I was being taught are no longer. It's not there anymore, which can be a little scary at first, because it's like everything I know is just being like, changed, it is upside down, but at the same time, it's like the things that I didn't have I can now instill in my class, in my future classrooms, and in my kiddos that I you know, come across. And so a big, big thing for me is social, emotional health and making sure my kids know you know how they're feeling, they're able to vocalize it, and then they're able to say, okay, maybe the choice I made before wasn't the best choice, but I know I did it because I was really upset that someone stole my apple juice or whatever. And so next time, I know, instead of hitting my friend, I can do X, Y, Z. You know, knowing that your feelings are valid, and what do we do with those feelings when we feel them? If that makes sense.

Katie Olmsted 9:41
I mean, that's so important. And as a parent of littles, I mean, every little is going to have those big feelings. Ooh, they we have them. I have big feelings too, oftentimes triggered by my littles' big feelings. But just having that foundational support, what difference do you think it would have made in your life is coming back to that neurodivergent learner, if maybe we had a better way of identifying what frustration felt like instead of getting angry about it. If that's how that yes, maybe I'm projecting a little bit.

Kyndal Mickel 10:16
It's okay. And this is when you when you talk about your feelings, it opens up for people to talk about theirs. So I have some of those shared feelings too. And, yeah, I definitely think, I think I was very -I still am a little bit -hard on myself. And so when I had these frustrations, and I'm like, oh, why can't I get this, instead of asking for help, I turned it inward, and kind of was like, oh, like, why can't you get, like, extra perfectionists just really, really hard on myself. And then I kind of shut down instead of again, reaching out for help. And so I think, I think when you empower students, I mean anyone really, but from a, the younger, the better. So when you empower your students to speak out about how they're feeling, first off, acknowledge how they're feeling. So not just you're crying for a reason. Why are you crying? Like, what? What's going on? When they're able to identify those things, and they're given a voice, a listening ear, then they're able to advocate for themselves in the future. So I definitely think if I would have had that, I would have learned self advocacy way sooner than learning it from actually OEA, so yeah, I think that that's a big, big thing.

Katie Olmsted 11:15
And that brings us right back to your role as the AE chair-elect. You're learning advocacy skills, and you are turning right around, and you are helping other AEs advocate for themselves. What are you most excited about in this, this journey ahead for you in the role?

Kyndal Mickel 11:34
Yeah, good question. Look, my ramblings are getting me somewhere. Okay, I'm most excited about, I think it, I honestly, it's that self advocacy. So I think I'm most excited about meeting people who just like me -My dad is an educator, actually, but I didn't, I didn't really know much, you know, I'm not really seeing the day to day. I'm seeing him when he when he leaves for work and when he comes home, you know, but I'm not really seeing what all he goes through as an educator. And so I think I'm excited to, kind of grasp people who don't necessarily have an idea -educators or not, honestly - grasp an idea of what it takes to become an educator. You know, what we're going through in the process, what our goals, hopes, aspirations, whatever. I'm excited to, let me sum this up, develop future leaders and and in helping develop those future leaders also engage community as well.

Katie Olmsted 12:24
And I know you recently went to the national conference, right? Speaking of community, I mean, that's a lot of different people from all over the country, yes, who are joined by this common experience of being an Aspiring Educator on an American college campus. What was that like for you?

Kyndal Mickel 12:41
Mind-blowing. So clearly, I like to talk, but being in a room of peers who, I mean, for the most part, share your same ideals and and hopes. I mean, it was, it was crazy. I was quiet. Honestly, you may not believe it. It was. There was just so much to take in, and so many stories to hear, so much to learn. And it really, I mean, also on the, you know, political advocacy side, it was just so refreshing to hear these ideas. And then we're we were so empowered to come back to Ohio and be like, oh my gosh. We we learned this, this and this, and this is what they're doing in South Carolina. This is what they're doing in Minnesota and Chicago and Alabama, all these places. And so obviously there's some, there's some downsides to different, you know, bannings and all those things. But for my thing is, I still see, I see the optimism. So hearing those stories and coming back like, okay, this is what we need to do here, and this is how we can support them there, and this is how they're gonna support us. It's like all these, all these, um, I'm flinging my hands in the air, but all these little like sprouts of connection. And so it was just so cool on a national level, to be able to experience that again, with your peers, like it was no words. After all those words.

Katie Olmsted 13:45
And you came back to Ohio empowered to really just start digging in, taking action. As an OEA board member, yeah, what are you gonna do with that? You don't have to get into specific policies, obviously, but, but what kind of voice does that give you?

Kyndal Mickel 14:01
Honestly, and especially at this level, as an aspiring educator, sometimes it is hard to kind of feel like your opinions matter, and not just even opinions, the facts that you've gathered from your own experiences and from reaching out to the community, sometimes it's hard to feel like your voice is heard. So on the national level, being able, again to communicate with peers or even like the speakers that we had, it really, it was a big old like, your voice matters. Your voice is shaking and changing our culture, like you're doing things. And so seeing my peers, like getting, you know, certain, certain student teaching stipends and whatever passed, it was like, okay, okay, we are doing things like we are our impact is being felt. So I think, yeah, what? What are we gonna do? Everything. Everything, everything's gonna get done like we may not see we may not see it tomorrow, but someone's gonna see the work that we're putting in, and it's the movement that we're doing right now is being seen. So yeah.

Katie Olmsted 14:59
And at the end of the day when you are empowered to make a difference for AEs, you are empowering AEs to make a difference for future students.

Kyndal Mickel 15:07
Yes, oh, that was that was good.

Katie Olmsted 15:11
Just came up with that. But I mean, truly, that's what it's about. You want to be an educator. You want to impact students lives, and one big part of that is, is making sure that there's pathways for AEs to get into classrooms and to be the best educators possible. The future looks bright for you?

Kyndal Mickel 15:29
Yes, yes, it's burning bright. Yep.

Katie Olmsted 15:35
The future really is bright with people like Kyndal Mickel paving the way for other aspiring educators like she is. As we mentioned at the beginning of this episode, she is working with educators and Aspiring Educators across the state to help move the ball forward in Ohio State House on proposed legislation to provide financial support for student teachers. The Aspiring Educators need your help to get this moving in the General Assembly. Look for the link to share your own experiences and perspectives on this issue in the show notes for this episode, and keep tuning in for other conversations with educators from all walks of life as this season of the podcast continues. Next week, we're hearing from an OEA-Retired member about a wide variety of topics, including her thoughts on the future of the education profession shaped by her role in a landmark lawsuit that benefited many educators back in the 1980s. You don't want to miss this conversation, or any of our other conversations with the people shaping the education landscape in our state, because in Ohio, public education matters.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai