Public Education Matters

Various student voices 0:08
Public education matters. Public education matters. Public education matters.

Scott DiMauro 0:15
This is Public Education Matters, brought to you by the Ohio Education Association.

Katie Olmsted 0:26
Welcome back to Public Education Matters. I'm Katie Olmsted, and I'm part of the communications team for the Ohio Education Association and the nearly 120,000 public school educators OEA represents around the state that is nearly 120,000 unique individuals, all united around a passion for serving Ohio's learners, but each coming to the table with a different background, different culture, different ideas, different beliefs, a different story to tell. Hakim Oliver is a member with the Mason Education Association, who knows just how powerful our stories are in bringing people together to solve problems and find a better path forward for all of us. A few years ago, he put together a program to help use people's stories to build bridges, a program he has shared with a lot of other people around Ohio, including at an OEA retired summit in 2023 now he's actually written a book to help more people understand the power of building stories, to build those connections, connections which are probably more important now than ever. Take a listen to our conversation.

Hakim Oliver 1:47
Hello, everyone. My name is Hakim Oliver. I am an intervention specialist at Mason High School. I been here for 20 years. All 28 years have been at Mason High School, and I help students go to the next stage.

Katie Olmsted 2:02
You build bridges with your students, but it's much bigger than just with the students. You have an entire building bridges program. What can you tell me?

Hakim Oliver 2:06
Absolutley and thanks for asking. So building bridges is a multi series event. We go around multiple municipals, and we have sessions that bring people together. So I have a team with me, and in my team, I have people that represent multiple backgrounds. And in one session, we have the team share their story, and in the second session, we have the participants share their story, and then in the third or fourth session, we will work things out together, have conversations, collaborate, small group work, and then in the very last session, we break bread. And that concludes our series.

Katie Olmsted 2:48
Why? Why do something like that?

Hakim Oliver 2:53
You know, I felt like we weren't having conversations with each other. The last event that happened was the murder of George Floyd, and I was looking around, and as my co workers, colleagues were reaching out to me, I had a lot of lunch dates, and there's a lot of questions. And then I learned right then and there that there people have a lot of questions. They just need a safe, safe space to ask it, and they they don't know where to go, they don't know who to trust. They wanted to be uncomfortable, but, you know, they don't want to burn any bridges. And so I decided to create a platform that is absolutely safe for for the participants, but it's also guilt free, no no shame, no guilt, no any of that stuff, but it gets the point across, but it brings people together. So I promised my colleagues I would develop something, and I developed that, and I was able to get a team, and I was able to make agreements with different municipals, and then so now we have people having conversations that they normally would not have, and they're doing it in a safe way. Anybody could be a part of my group, whether you're far left or far right. Nobody has left any of my sessions feeling guilty or feeling shameful or left my sessions grumpy, and I still get content across. That's key.

Katie Olmsted 4:17
Why is this such an important opportunity for educators, especially?

Hakim Oliver 4:22
Well, if educators can't do it, then who can? We are, we are blessed with individuals from all different all different walks to life. We our audience are people. We're used to dealing with people. We are in the people business. Who else is in the people business like we are? Who else can build relationships like we are. We are the most trusted, I would say trusted profession out there. I think maybe next to doctors. I'm not sure, but let me say back to what I know. We're the most trusted people. If we can't have these conversations, who can? The thing is, with what I wanted to do was that we did have diversity. When I say diversity groups come in and try to have this conversation, but they didn't build they didn't build relationships, or they came in too strong and powerful, or, you know, they left people feeling guilty and shame, which then now takes a step back. So okay, I figure, well, you know, I can do this. Yeah, I can build relationships, and after relationships build then we could bring in the content and have those type of questions. And so I just wanted to get out ahead of that. That's why I created it.

Katie Olmsted 5:30
And at a time right now where you know, saying diversity is us in itself doesn't feel like a very safe word based on what's coming down from the federal level, even from the from the state level. Do you think there is still a space for these important conversations, and how do you frame that as as you know they have that brand of when we had the diversity experts come in before it was it made people feel one way, but that's that's not reflective of this program, and not really reflective of what the goal of this is, right?

Hakim Oliver 6:03
Correct and so I do understand that having someone with my profile to come in, I can understand where the gloves will be up, and there may be people that would be hesitant to have this conversation. What I what I'm doing is I tell people I am building relationships and bringing people together. Well, once again, with the disclaimer that nobody here will be feel guilty or ashamed and it'll be a safe space. That's the guarantee. I bring in. And then I say so. When I say, I bring when I'm doing building relationships, I don't say DEI, because that term has gone down. And I think the tricky part when it comes to the DEI is that it includes so many things. And so instead of pick point, pick pocketing, or pick pointing, which ones to do, which ones not to do, or this program, this program, you know, I know the whole term is just considered a bad language to certain people, and I definitely understand that, but, but there's a relationship aspect that is separate from that, that still needs to be nurtured, built, still needs to be created, like we at the end of day, we still need relationships. Nobody can turn down relationships, whether it has a political backing or not. I mean, we're talking about relation. That's the basis who we are. So I'm going to stick to relationships, and then I'll let them decide what they're going to do with that term of DEI.

Katie Olmsted 7:33
How important is telling your own story in forming those relationships? You mentioned that first session is your, your team tells their story. The second session the second session is your participants tell their story.

Hakim Oliver 7:46
Absolutely, so storytelling, I feel like, is the most powerful verbal asset we can have. One, it brings the human out. Two, it brings connection when you're able to sit next to each other and just have those stories. Uh, three, obviously it has to be done in a safe way, but it kind of, how do you say when someone is sitting next to someone and they see those emotions and that raw energy, it can't be denied, especially in a safe platform. And so when it happens, a lot of times, people are learning and get to know each other, and then people understanding that, hey, we're kind of used to our own story, and then every now and then, we like to do the transfer of well, this is my experience, and everybody else must have similar experience that we have, and in that we realize very quickly, the participants realize, like, okay, there are other experiences I'm here in real life. Some are shocking, some are entertaining, some some make you laugh. But that opens ears, and it drops the defensive gloves down and, and after that relationship is built, you know, there's a more of an understanding, and that's why it is really important. So I shared my story, and I my story is, I was born in inner city, LA, and then I moved to suburb global. So right off the bat, I asked, you know, what do you hear? And, and I hope that they would answer, if not, I would help them that they hear that. You know, politically, I was in a urban liberal environment for the first part of my childhood, and then I moved to a very conservative suburban environment, and that's why I'm here. So I took both of my experience, I put them together, and that's how I present myself the language between both areas and in doing it in a safe way. And so when I do that, people understand, okay, he's, he is trying to be down the middle on this one. He is trying to he he sees that side, but he also sees this side too. And so when I present that story people are intrigued, and people are intrigued from both sides, the suburban people are intrigued about the city part, and then the city part are intrigued about the suburban part. So I get, I get all audience no matter what I do.

Katie Olmsted 10:13
And it sounds a lot like it's both about hearing where people's experiences are different, but also seeing yourself in somebody else's experiences, where people are identifying with this certain part of your story so that they're more able to hear the rest of your story. Does that, does that line up?

Hakim Oliver 10:29
Absolutely and that is well received, and it's and it's it's taken in. It's great that that is not the issue at all. I think the issue if, I don't know if you're asking this, but I think the issue is that that is that sometimes we will accidentally bust mess, and that's the hard part. So if I break down the two hardest things, and when we come to this conversation, may, can I break this down, please? I would love that. So there's two main things going on, and this is where I found I've expanded on on one end, when it comes to minorities sharing their story, minorities are not just sharing story. They're sharing pain. Okay? And so that, not saying that majorities cannot have pain, I'm saying minorities are sharing pain. And so what happens is, when you share pain and you think about just pain in general. You want the pain to be resolved, heard, taken care of right away. And so the disconnect is when someone shares a pain and is not received or understood the first time automatically. Now there's frustration. Now there's a disconnect. And without relationships, this, this is about to go left. This is going to go down, okay?

Katie Olmsted 11:41
And I think we saw that you mentioned the George Floyd protests. I think there is such an important story to be told there about when you have this pain and no one is hearing you, when no one is hearing your voice, I would scream too.

Hakim Oliver 11:57
Yeah. So here's what I did. I built empathy for the other person. And that's what I'm doing. The program I built empathy for the other person who doesn't understand. And I do it with this story. I do this with this analogy. So let's can, Katie can take it back, when you were a kid, when you're kidding, you hurt yourself, when you're a kid and you hurt yourself, you probably had pain. What did you do? I'm just asking, did you go, you know, run a mom and cry to my mommy. All right? So you cried a mom, right? Okay, now, but here's here, when I reflect on here's interesting thing. I did the same thing too, when I fell off my bike. I ran to mom. I didn't go to dad. I ran to mom, because I'm expecting mom to listen. So I run to mom, and I say, Mom, I'm in pain. But here's the deal, here's I want to share with you, when I really think about that, Mom did not address my pain right away. She asked questions. And that's the key. This is what we're forgetting, we're missing. So when I go in there and say, Mom, I hurt my arm, mom doesn't my mom didn't automatically take my arm and start wrapping up. No, she asked. She says, What? What happened? Well, she's not she's not adjusting the pain. Yet she's getting information. So she says, what happened? And I said, Mama, I fell out the bike as I'm doing that. What is she is doing? She's taking all types of information. She's looking at my eyes. She's looking at my my body language, she's looking at the pain. Is it a is there a prior history there? There's so much things she's taken in. And then after she gets the information she feels like she need, she will proceed. And we're talking anywhere from like just giving me a cookie I was chunky versus taking me to the hospital, right? So that that and base and or does she have to call the paramedics? These are all the things that are happening first, then the pain will actually get addressed. Okay, let me go to the other side. Now we're talking about new information. So Katie, if I were to tell you new information about your communications department, I don't know if you would take that. Well, now you trust me. You know, I'm an educator, so like me, you have a relationship, whatever. But I told you a new fact about communications department, but I'm a teacher. Okay, you're going to think about that for a second, and here's what I'm going to say now, not to assume, but during these conversations, this we've had to do, when I tell you something new, you're going to go through a process, and this process is going to be, wait a minute, okay? One, you're going to check the reliability of me and our relationship, right? Well, he's an educator, so, I mean, I don't think he would lie and but I never really heard this before. And then you're going to go back to your culture, your culture, meaning your co workers, your boss, your manager, and you're going to kind of as you're listening to me, you're going to reflect and go, Wait a minute. Okay, my boss never told me this, my co workers never told me this, but this guy that I just met is telling me about this. How does he know this and how did how is he telling me that? Maybe not Oprah. Then after that, you're going to think about maybe your parents, your grandparents, or whoever else might have knowledge in this, and you're going to ask yourself, Okay, this is a well known entity and establishment that I'm working in. How is this guy telling me something new that I never heard before? And he's not in it. So when it comes to new information, when we have conversations, lot of times we're telling people on the other side, new information that never heard before. This takes also time, excuse me, this also takes time to process, because you have to go through the process before you can receive the information. This can be frustrating. I kind of also to resonate this with audience. We talk about things where you have to wait. We don't like waiting as adults, right? And then we also don't like to hit new information as adults. And this is, this is the mishap. This is the miscommunication. On one end, I'm in the hospital waiting room, waiting for my message to be received on the other end, my new friend, my relationship person, just got new information that they never heard before, and it's contradicting some of the things that hurt in the past. Okay, so now we have to nurture this relationship.

Katie Olmsted 15:55
And that's where those bridges are so important. Where I'm hearing the one thing you started with is, well, I'm an educator, so you probably do trust me. That is part of this is that when we do have those bridges, I have an automatic bridge to an educator, because I do trust educators. But when we have these bridges with each other, and we we can accept new information, have a bridge where we can trust other humans to have other information and other experiences and other truths. The world feels like a better place, right?

Hakim Oliver 16:24
The world feels like a better place. And, you know, listen, just come in and tell somebody to change your mind. At we're past that, right? Anyone can add a perspective, anyone, and that's what we're trying to do. And so what I did was break down why this conversation has a disconnect. I broke it down to those two things, and once I explain what is going on in the conversation, the aha moment goes up. The light bulb goes on, and people can now have conversations because now, now the expectations are at a reasonable place where we can have this relationship, have these conversations without people fighting, bickering, arguing and splitting off.

Katie Olmsted 17:05
And so of course, you have this program that you have been sharing with a lot of people, but you also have a book coming out. What can you tell me about that?

Hakim Oliver 17:12
Yes, I'm really excited about the book. It's called Bridging Stories. And I did put, I did the two main pieces that we just talked about is in that book, and is going to describe a little more detail and give a little more examples. After I talk about those two main pieces and give stories to help support it, and then I also offer suggestions on how people can have conversations. And so then, after they read that book, I feel like they will be equipped with the tools to have a conversation with anybody.

Katie Olmsted 17:41
What has the process been like for you to bring it to this point where it's getting ready to be shared?

Hakim Oliver 17:48
Well, when it comes to the actual bridging stories or building bridges, the group that was interesting, because if you had to tell me that I have to find a team and then go to a municipal and then sell it, and then advertise it, and then bring people in. We're educators. Kids come to us, all right. We're not sellers, okay? We we do. Kids come to us. We have the content, we deliver it, we build relationships and we go. The key is, though I do build relationships, I have that part down as far as me selling and things presenting, yes, I can do but selling and creating in that fashion was totally different. But once that got rolling, then I was able to revamp and revise and evaluate just like an educator would. So then my teaching background came in after our first sessions, and I was able to go, okay, something was tugging me. I'm not trying to get religious, but God, someone's telling me, hey, I need you to write a book on this.

Katie Olmsted 18:51
That's your story. I appreciate you sharing it.

Hakim Oliver 18:54
Thank you, I appreciate that, thank you. I felt a nudge from him to say, I need you to write a story. And my first response is, I'm not a writer. I can talk, I can present, I can teach, I can build relationships with writing is not my thing. And then, when I was reluctant to build the my group with the municipals, I remember regretting not doing it sooner. So then when I answer, I'm not a writer, I don't want to do this. My, I started remembering the regret again, and I said, I can't do this again. Okay, so then I got out a piece of paper, and I start writing. And I want you to know I was very scared. I was very scared because this is not my thing. My, I'm more comfortable in front of people not writing it down. So I began writing. I began using the experiences and the stories that I have in our community sessions, and I put them down on, in a book. And so here's where I'm at now. We, I had an editing editor, and we've gone through three editing rounds I have my who is an English teacher, my, my co worker who, who gave me pro bono treatment, which is nice. We went through two rounds with her, and then we selected a third editor, because of a relationship, she felt like, because she knows me, she felt like my voice is in her head, even when she was reading it. So we wanted to get a stranger who can also come in that I don't know. And I was permitted new information, information. Thank you very much. Give me new information. And then so then took that piece out, or took that piece back, made the final edits, and then there it is.

Katie Olmsted 20:38
Well, I cannot wait to be able to read it, and I can't wait to see what you do is continue to share your program. Hakim Oliver, thank you so much for sitting down with us.

Hakim Oliver 20:49
No Katie, thank you for reaching out to me. Thank you for finding me. Thank you for sharing. This is amazing, and it's another step. It's an honor, actually, and so I really appreciate you.

Katie Olmsted 21:02
You can learn more about the Building Bridges Program and the building stories book in the show notes for this episode. And while you're there, make sure you subscribe to Public Education Matters wherever you get your podcasts, so you don't miss a conversation. In the future, we will continue to dive into these kinds of conversations with the people who are shaping the public education landscape in our state every day, because in Ohio, public education matters.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai