Public Education Matters

Various student voices 0:08
Public education matters. Public education matters. Public education matters.

Scott DiMauro 0:15
This is Public Education Matters brought to you by the Ohio Education Association.

Katie Olmsted 0:26
Thanks for joining us for Public Education Matters. I'm Katie Olmsted, and I'm part of the communications team for the Ohio Education Association and the nearly 120,000 public school educators OEA represents across the state. These educators had been called to this profession by a dedication to serving their students, and before they started their careers in the classroom, a good number of these educators spent time in the US military serving their country. Educators are supposed to receive credit for those years of military service when they are hired on at a school district in Ohio. Those years of experience should mean coming in at a higher placement on the salary schedule. But not every veteran who becomes an educator knows what they're entitled to because of their service, and not every veteran-turned-educator knows how to navigate the system to get what they're owed. That was a lesson learned with some good union support for today's Public Education Matters guest. An Army veteran who did a 15 month deployment in Iraq as part of his years of military service, and who came in at step zero when he started working as a seventh grade math teacher in Delaware, Ohio. Let's hear his story.

Josh Caslow 1:48
All right, so yeah, I am Josh Caslow. I teach in Delaware City Schools. I was in - prior to teaching, I was in the military, the Army, active duty for three and a half years, and then National Guard for three years.

Katie Olmsted 2:03
What made you want to become a teacher after your time in the Army and the National Guard?

Josh Caslow 2:08
Good question. It was actually between two career choices. So the Army, I got a lot of leadership experience that I didn't really get beforehand, and I just I liked that responsibility, so I was actually considering both either being a fireman or a teacher. And I'm a short, smaller person. So I was like, Okay, I don't know that I want to be responsible for lugging a 240 pound person out of a burning building. I was like, that would just be too much for me. So it's like teaching it is. Otterbein has a program. They let me. They have, you like, kind of observe every grade level, and then just once I was in the classroom, I was hooked.

Katie Olmsted 2:50
What do you love about teaching?

Josh Caslow 2:53
Really, it's just the community service. That part. Just giving back to - you know, I live and teach both in Delaware City, so, I mean, I see my kids if I go to First Friday. This year, I have my own seventh grader in a couple of my classes. I don't have them for math, which is okay, because, yeah, kids don't always listen to their parents anyway, so, but yeah, it's, it's really just being able to give back. I like being there when when stuff is hard for kids, and kind of helping them get over that hump, which is kind of what drove me to math instead of science.

Katie Olmsted 3:26
How did your time in the Army and the National Guard make you a better teacher?

Josh Caslow 3:32
Ooh, really just getting to work, I guess, work and lead a diverse group of people. So anytime you're in the military, anytime you look at the military, you've got all people of all different backgrounds coming from around the United States, upper class, middle class, lower class, like everybody, demographically, everyone, racially, culturally. It really, it was a really good like, it was a brand new experience for me as well, because I kind of grew up in this area, and it's not, it wasn't that diverse when I was growing up, so I was really only around middle, upper class, white kids. And just as soon as I was in basic training, I was like, Whoa, this is a whole different, like, it's a whole different like, what than what I've been used to. So I think just being put in charge and having all of those those soldiers coming from those different backgrounds, and having to get them to the same point is something that really set me up for success as a teacher, because I've got all of my students coming with all of their traumas, all of their backgrounds, all of their skills, everything, and at the end of the day, I have to get them from point A to point B.

Katie Olmsted 4:43
And the state of Ohio recognizes that your military service is both something that we should all be grateful for, for what you've done for our country, but also should be something that you're credited for as you're coming into the classroom. Can you help me understand what Ohio law is around that?

Josh Caslow 5:00
So my understanding now is very different than what it was when I was getting out of the service. I had heard rumors that, you know your time served would be translated into state or federal jobs. I was like, okay, cool. I assume that, you know, our human resources will take care of all of that and make sure that I am credited that time. My understanding now is that state of Ohio definitely does do that. They definitely will up to a certain time. And I think when I was working through with our LRC, it's actually they'll, they'll credit up to six years, even if there was a mistake made. So while they'll guarantee 100% of the time if there were no mistakes, so you have all your paperwork in order as you get hired, everyone's on the same page. They know you have the service then starting on day one, then you receive credit for that time.

Katie Olmsted 5:57
And as we know,when you're an educator, time served is a salary schedule placement. And that is a big financial impact. Talk to me a little bit about what happened in your case.

Josh Caslow 6:10
So in my case, I was finishing up college, I was working a part time job, and I had a two year old, two and a half year old, and then a newborn on the way. So I was getting ready to graduate, like anybody that's getting ready to graduate, I- My biggest concern was, okay, I'm about to enter the workforce. Do I have something lined up? And exiting my student teaching, I had really good rapport in the building that I was placed at, which happened to also be Delaware City Schools, and a long term sub position had opened up, so I was a rush hire. So I, you know, I was flying through just getting all my paperwork. I was very fortunate. I had a job lined up before I had even graduated, which was great for me, and apparently for the district as well, because they needed that position filled. And so I was just putting all my paperwork through, and I did not fill out on my application the part that said that I was prior service.

Katie Olmsted 7:09
Just something that you didn't realize was so important, or something that maybe slipped your mind?

Josh Caslow 7:14
I was just making sure that I had all the address, all the all the required boxes checked.

Katie Olmsted 7:18
Yeah, and I was actually talking to somebody the other day about filling out children's birth certificates, and I think this is something that is applicable here. When you are so nervous about getting the things right, about how to spell your baby's name, or where does my paycheck go, maybe we don't pay attention as closely as we should to every tiny little checkbox that maybe we should.

Josh Caslow 7:41
Right.

Katie Olmsted 7:42
But because you didn't check that box, what happened?

Josh Caslow 7:46
So, because I didn't check that box - It also was the first year that our HR director, so it was his first year as well, which I found out through our process of sorting all of this mess out - I had gone undocumented as having prior service. So I started at bachelor's zero, so base salary, instead of coming in with three and a half years service time, I should have started at a bachelor's two, so three steps up.

Katie Olmsted 8:12
And again, that is a significant amount of money in most contracts. That would be a very big difference in what you're getting paid.

Josh Caslow 8:20
Correct.

Katie Olmsted 8:20
So when did you realize that you were not getting the credit for the service that you are owed?

Josh Caslow 8:26
So I was hired in as a long term sub in 2016. My first licensed and contracted school year was the '16-'17, school year. I actually my partner at home, she went to an OEA Advocacy and Organizing Institute conference, and she overheard, you know, this is a thing that you should be getting paid for. So she got the information from OEA, and that was in February of 2023, so a while later. I think it was nine years. And then as soon as I found out, I reached out to our HR department and was just like, hey, I'm just following up on this. I obviously did a quick Google search as well to confirm. And was like, Google says Ohio says this will be recognized, so it's just kind of bringing it to their attention.

Katie Olmsted 9:12
And how did HR respond?

Josh Caslow 9:15
Well, it was our front office, so they were like, I need to let the director know, but HR followed up and said, "yeah, you're absolutely right." They don't know how it happened, but while they were going to look into it, this is all still in February, and then just make sure that everything, everything got sorted, essentially. And then in April, we didn't meet again until April. Was when they had we met and they said, Yes, we do need to to increase your steps, and they just needed me to kind of submit an official letter requesting that my steps be recognized.

Katie Olmsted 9:54
Did you have support from your union through this process?

Josh Caslow 9:59
I did. So as soon as it happened, I reached out to the union presidents, and they were like, I not super familiar. Let's pass this on to our LRC. So our LRC got back with me, and then was like, no, this is this all of this. Even, I think, by that time, had pulled Supreme Court, Ohio Supreme Court case that that says that you should be, you're guaranteed up to six years even of back pay if it was unrecognized. So I was like, okay, so I had all of this going into that April meeting with the submission of the letter. So yeah, the LRC at OEA was, he was very helpful.

Katie Olmsted 10:37
And as the end result, you ended up getting, what did you get out of that?

Josh Caslow 10:42
So it was a long back and forth. It was actually the first, their first offer was kind of a gut punch to me. I think that was something that their lawyer had submitted, and I don't know that my superintendent or the HR director had looked at it prior to meeting with me. They had only offered the time, and then basically from February when I emailed them to the current date of back pay. And I was like, no.So my my counter argument to them, and I was trying to find the email, I couldn't find what I had emailed our superintendent was just, you know, we, we kind of preach family in this profession, and especially in our district, because it's growing, but it's not a huge district. So if we're going to be pushing family in that mentality of like, you know, we'll do whatever it takes to make sure that, you know, everybody's taken care of this just wasn't -I didn't receive that feeling with that offer. They looked back into it. And then we ended up kind of going back and forth. We ended up coming to terms on settling for half of the error. It wasn't quite the six years, but again, had it gone to court, had I had to sue or anything like that, like I didn't fill out my application correctly. So there's always that possibility of it being less than that six years as well. So we ended up coming to terms, and I could get on board. I wasn't happy with only receiving half of the back pay. However, I understood where the offer came from, because I'm absorbing half of the error. They were absorbing the other half. And I was like, okay, I can, I can at least justify this, even though that's a huge chunk of money for like, one line and one check box on an application.

Katie Olmsted 12:19
Yeah. First off, what difference did it make in your life when the settlement happened, when you were able to move forward from there, at least with the recognition and half that credit that you were owed?

Josh Caslow 12:32
The recognition, I felt, I felt a lot better. Like I felt heard by my superintendent. I understood again, absorb, like we both, we both absorbed some of the mistake half and this was sorry, it was from February to late August, almost September. So it was a really long, drawn out process. It went through the summer even. So it's pretty stressful. So getting that closure was honestly really relieving, just to kind of not be butting heads with my my administration, who I respect a lot. So just like that, part of it was was really helpful. The financial side was really helpful. But just I don't know, just knowing that the documentation is, everything's where it needed to be. Because part of the problem too was, like everybody in the district knew I was prior service, so like I was in all of the veteran slideshows, all of those things. So it wasn't like I wasn't being recognized for my service. It was just that I wasn't receiving one of the benefits of having served.

Katie Olmsted 13:33
Right. And I feel like maybe that makes it more of that gut punch when you knew that I was a veteran, you know you knew this. But now that's behind us, and moving forward, you have an opportunity to really help a lot of other veterans understand what benefits they should be receiving. Have you heard from any other veterans who are in your position, and what have you been telling people?

Josh Caslow 13:57
Just recently, I've been working with Zach.

Katie Olmsted 14:01
Zach Roberts, who he works in OEA, in our Organizing and Member Engagement department. He is also a veteran himself, for people who are not familiar with him.

Josh Caslow 14:12
Yes, and he tends to try and reach out and look out for other teaching veterans. So I've been, I've been working with Zach just recently. I think there's somebody else that's going through something similar. So we're just kind of talking and rehashing what what happened on my end, how my story went, and just kind of that timeline. Beyond that, I haven't really helped anybody else with that this specific issue. My advice would be, really just to get in contact with any other veterans in your building, because they're probably going to be the easiest to get a hold of, the most accessible and just know what benefits you're entitled to, because the veterans that are already there probably know, and it's just not always something that you think to double check on. Like when I got out and was young, I had heard these rumors, but I never confirmed any of them. So I didn't even like Google, is my time, right? Is my time going to transfer? It was just again, I was excited that I had a job. I was fine getting base zero, because that's just what I thought, how I thought it would happen. So yeah, my advice would just be to reach out to your to your veterans that have been in for a while. They probably know and can get you some guidance. And if not, then always, always your LRC, because if they don't know, they're going to reach out probably to Zach Roberts.

Katie Olmsted 15:27
Do you think that every veteran knows, though? I mean, I think you're a shining example of you think you know what you know, but you don't know what you don't know, right?

Josh Caslow 15:27
Right. No, I don't. I think that there's probably some veterans that get out that are little older and pay more attention, or just pay more attention, maybe, than I did, because, again, maybe that was a me problem when I was ETSing, but I also, I know the military process, and it's just kind of, it's paperwork that they're trying to push you through when, when you're getting out. So, you know, it was probably one person at one point telling me some benefits that I was entitled to, just to check a box and then move on. So, yeah, I would assume that there are people that are in a similar case as me, and I would, I would hope that it's not for as long.

Katie Olmsted 16:21
And hopefully they'll hear this and they'll know to make sure that they should be checking to see if they've gotten the benefits they were entitled to through their service.

Josh Caslow 16:29
Correct. And I think that my half year, because my half year was only six months, it has to hit seven to round up to the next fourth, the next step. So it's just small nuances like that that you just want to verify with either your veteran staff, and if they don't know, then then somebody that definitely does know, like like Zach.

Katie Olmsted 16:49
And knowing is so important that it even exists, right. So Josh, thank you for helping spread the message about what people should know, what veterans should know, and thank you for your service, and thank you for your dedication to your students.

Josh Caslow 17:02
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Katie Olmsted 17:11
Josh also wants to make sure all OEA members, not just veterans, know they can get legal support through OEA if they find themselves in a position where they may need to take legal action in a matter relating to their job. That support was big in helping Josh navigate his situation with his district. Talk to your labor relations consultant to learn more about OEA's Legal Services program. We'll see you back here next week for another good conversation here on this podcast as we continue to explore some of the big issues that are impacting Ohio's educators, students and communities, because in Ohio, public education matters.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai